World Wide Technology's Kevin Dana on Why Trust Drives AI Adoption

[00:00:00] Roula Amire: Welcome to Better by Great Place to Work, the global authority on workplace culture. I'm your host, Roula Amire, content director at Great Place to Work

This episode is a first. For the first time, I'm joined by a co-host. Brian Feldt, host of the AI Proving Ground podcast from World Wide Technology, sponsor of this season of our podcast, joins me today. And our guest is Kevin Dana, SVP and chief information officer at World Wide. What I loved about this episode is how practical it is.

Kevin talks about what has and hasn't worked at World Wide when it comes to AI adoption with real-life lessons learned. We talked about open mic nights and AI champions, experimentation, and why failure is often a necessary part of innovation. I know you're going to walk away with a lot of ideas you can put to use right away, so enjoy my conversation with Kevin and Brian.

Kevin, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:10] Kevin Dana: Thank you. Good to be here.

[00:01:12] Roula Amire: It's great to have you on. I am particularly excited because I'm joined by a co-host for the first time, Brian Feldt. Brian, you are host of the AI Proving Ground podcast, presented by World Wide Technology. Thanks for being here.

[00:01:25] Brian Feldt: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

I'm looking forward to co-hosting. Haven't done it before, but it's going to be an adventure.

[00:01:30] Roula Amire: I haven't done it either. Uh, never had a co-host, so we'll, we'll learn together. Yeah. Um, I recently learned you have a background in journalism.

[00:01:38] Brian Feldt: That's right.

[00:01:39] Roula Amire: As, as do I. So Kevin, fair warning, might have some extra follow-up questions.

It

[00:01:45] Kevin Dana: sounds like most of you will do the talking since I have a technology background.

Here comes the grilling.

[00:01:49] Roula Amire: Hard

[00:01:50] Kevin Dana: questions.

Sounds good.

[00:01:51] Roula Amire: We'll, we'll keep it painless, I'll promise.

Sure.

Kevin, as the chief information officer at World Wide, you have a front row seat to what's happening in, in tech today.

We see study after study that shows adoption levels are low, and executives are frustrated because their people aren't using AI as much as they like or as fast enough, et cetera. From where you sit, what are you hearing from leaders?

[00:02:15] Kevin Dana: Uh, it is pretty similar to that. I think there's a lot of noise out in the world- Mm.

Um, particularly if you are in any places where AI companies are espousing what they're able to do. Um, and then that creates com- confusion on what the tools can actually do. Uh, so that creates a level of impatience and expectation. And then with that, um, as, as employees are trying to use the tools, whether in their personal life or at work, there's varying degrees of success with those things.

And so there's kind of a, a tension that exists between those two, those two expectations that we are, as you said, at the front row seat direct- actually on stage, trying to figure out how do you bring those together and actually achieve solid business outcomes through the use of this new technology?

[00:03:01] Brian Feldt: Yeah. So just as you think about that, I mean, with the enterprise perspective here, what have you learned in terms of, you know, how much it's about a tools discussion versus a, a change management and leadership perspective?

[00:03:13] Kevin Dana: Um, I would say it's, it's really intertwined. In, in many regards it's more intertwined than, than anything else.

Um, so we- there's a huge demand for the tools, um, and as we just said, there's an expectation that the tools are going to be able to do things. But then there's the reality that sets in of how do you enable people to, uh, actually get the repeatable types of results out of them? If they're not repeatable, it's almost the, kinda the hot stove effect of like, "I tried it, I'm not going to do that again."

Mm-hmm. But you see week on week that these things are advancing, and what may have not worked last week will work this week. Now, whether it's repeatable, uh, becomes the next question, but there's actually an aspect of people building trust in the tools that they're being expected to use that we need to overcome through change management.

And we- and with that we need to also say, "Hey, it's okay in these scenarios to experiment-

[00:04:07] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm ...

[00:04:07] Kevin Dana: uh, try things out, uh, and learn through those things your- yourself as opposed to waiting to s- to have something that comes out and says, 'Use this tool for this thing and expect this outcome.'" So there's an aspect here that's a little bit more challenging of getting people more comfortable with trying things out-

[00:04:25] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm

[00:04:25] Kevin Dana: and giving time and space for them to do it as well.

[00:04:28] Roula Amire: And that's more likely to happen in a high-trust environment. So they'll experiment if they feel safe to try and learn new things- Yes ... which we'll, which we'll get into. Mm-hmm. So, so let's dig in, let's dig into that. Um, so to your point, our research shows that it's not the tools that slow adoption, it's, it's the leaders.

Adoption goes up by more than 100% if leaders talk about AI, use it themselves-

[00:04:55] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm ...

[00:04:56] Roula Amire: not delegate, and connect it to people's real work and careers. So those are the three drivers that we've seen according to our research that really drive AI adoption. Does any of that surprise you?

[00:05:09] Kevin Dana: Not at all, no. I mean, I'd say our experience has been, like you said- Mm-hmm

from the CEO, Jim-

[00:05:17] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm ...

[00:05:17] Kevin Dana: uh, through the executive team on down, there's been early discussions around where we see AI fitting into Worldwide and what we expect Worldwide to be as a company as we go through this transformation.

[00:05:30] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:31] Kevin Dana: And even just, uh, in town halls and in corporate updates even, uh, more opening of, "Hey, we don't have all the answers, but this is where we want to go, and we want to go with you on this journey."

[00:05:42] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:42] Kevin Dana: Um, so that, that, that aspect is there as well as the lead by example, which I think we probably will want to dig into as well. Mm-hmm. But it's not just g- uh, go do that and then get back to me. It's like, "Here's how I'm seeing it being used. Here's how I'd like to see you try to make it used." But, but it needs to also have that trust and that feedback loop of-

[00:06:02] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm

[00:06:02] Kevin Dana: listening to, "We tried this. It didn't work. Uh, we want to try something else," not, "We tried this. We're done," but keep it as a feedback loop of experimentation and innovation.

[00:06:13] Brian Feldt: Let's unpack a little bit about, um, you mentioned our CEO, Jim Kavanaugh, at, at Worldwide Technology. Uh, you know, Roula, you're talking about leaders that talk about AI, help drive AI.

I can't think of anybody that's talking more about AI- ... than, than Jim is. Yeah. Take us back to maybe the moment where, you know, uh, ChatGPT exploded. It's, it's late 2022 or maybe early 2023- Yeah ... and Jim's telling, uh, the executive leadership and, and, and yourself, "We want to be an AI-first company." H- w- what do you remember about that time?

Where did friction-- how did you start to implement that? Where did frictions arise? How did you start building teams around it? Just w-what was a little bit of that game plan?

[00:06:53] Kevin Dana: Uh, that was a frenet-- I was trying to forget all that, Brian, but no. Um, it was frenetic and, and part of that is like as a technologist, you want to understand what this technology is and what you would be bringing into the environment.

'Cause as an enterprise, you still have aspects of compliance and privacy and, and, uh, you know, all of those types of things that you still have to make sure something is fit for purpose. And, um, what's been interesting with AI is how quickly the progression has been. So when it first came out in twenty twenty-two and, uh, late twenty twenty-two and twenty-three, it really was a almost like a crystal ball thing.

Like you ask a question, it gets something back, and everybody's amazed that it provides coherent results, but you could not steer, you could not control what that was.

[00:07:36] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:37] Kevin Dana: So we went through these different phases of, um, retrieval, augmented, uh, generation. So, you know, being able to now control and feed, uh, corporate information and get corporate answers to now where we're at with the agentic age and tools.

All of those things have been a journey, and with that would be, again, that feedback loop of what are we working on, uh, and how are we able to get results on that? What's ready for prime time, something that we can give to employees? What's not? And we just continue on that kind of iterative approach. And the, the frequency that we have for that at World Wide is weekly.

So as part of Jim's executive leadership meeting every Monday morning- Mm ... there's an hour devoted to what are we doing with AI in each of the different business units, and those are led by the business leaders, uh, back to the original- Mm-hmm ... point of how are we applying this as opposed to IT come in saying, you know, pushing rope uphill, like, "Here, use AI for this."

Mm-hmm. So that, that changes the game and the nature of this. So we're not trying to catch up to what's being said out on, you know, on X. It's how are we actually achieving business outcomes using this and being an AI-first company?

[00:08:41] Brian Feldt: Yeah, how did that intense focus from Jim early on, even until today, how did that intense focus help permeate through the rest of the organization that, that helped others, um, you know, other managers within the organization also talk about AI and try to drive AI at a time in twenty twenty-three where, like you said, maybe the AI responses weren't as trustworthy as they are today?

[00:09:03] Kevin Dana: Um, I think that the thing that, that, that that afforded was it's okay to dig into this, and back to trust- Mm-hmm ... it's okay for there to be mistakes. So early on, one of the projects that we picked to, to work on was a request for proposal tool And we started to build the, the tool and, and it was early days, and the, the early results were not landing.

It was the RFP team was saying, "You know, we're not getting good results. I would rather do this the old, the old way than the new way." And lo and behold, back to technology advancements, a new model came out. We plugged the model in, and boom, all of a sudden, the, the whole thing started to work. So in, in that case, it was, I mean, a good story that it was fortunate that a little bit of skating to the puck, uh, and the technology hit.

But that then created also an expectation that we continue to make bets on some things that are probably the, the leading edge so that when those things catch up, we're there and ready to go with them. So, so that happening, but that happening through business leaders and seeking to identify where we could do business process transformation using AI is really, I think, the, the mix.

And that then helps with adoption because they're seeing... the employees are seeing where it fits into and changes the way that they work, as opposed to, here's a general purpose tool, figure out how to make that do something.

[00:10:27] Roula Amire: So we see adoption jump up by 150% when leaders themselves use AI and talk about how they're using AI.

And I'm hearing Jim is devoting And on every Monday, uh- Yes ... at the executive meetings, an hour, uh, an hour on it. Um, how does that play out at Worldwide outside of those meetings? What are leaders and other managers expected to do or how are they held accountable? Do they have meetings where they're talking about how they're using it, what they learned, what didn't work?

So, so kind of normalizing the conversation on, around we're trying things, 'cause I'm hearing you say, "We don't have all the answers." Right. We try it, we have this feedback loop. So is that part of the conversation that's normalizing-

[00:11:12] Kevin Dana: Yep ...

[00:11:12] Roula Amire: we're learning here, this is a learning culture?

[00:11:14] Kevin Dana: It is ac- I mean, you hit right on the n- nail on the head.

Learning culture is a key aspect for Worldwide and, and that, uh, you know, don't fear failure. Mm-hmm. Lean into it. Um, and in, in that regard, in that cycle, the other thing that we've talked about in this is kinda controlled chaos, which- Mm ... in enterprise doesn't sound that great, but we recognize that there's just, there's too much that we...

If we were trying to clamp it down and say, "We're going to control this, we're going to define things, uh, and, and we'll roll them out in a controlled manner," it limits the surface area of what we could discover. Um, and so to, to getting to your question, each of the business unit leaders have started to create their own kinda cadence on things.

Like I know a, a few of the business units have, uh, a 60-minute call once a, a month, where they just have it as a open mic night almost of, "Tell us what you've used AI for and how you've been successful for it." So it's not- Hmm ... it's not a top-down, it is a, a grassroots up, but it meets with the top-down expectation and communication that we're a d- an AI first, uh, company.

[00:12:14] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:14] Kevin Dana: So then when we saw those things happening, we also said to create a level of control of the chaos- Mm-hmm ... we'll create an AI competency center. So we wanted to say, "Don't leave it to everybody's devices of how you get trained on it, et cetera, but let's learn from what is happening there, curate the, some of those things, and then make that available to the, to the rest of the organization as well."

So there's, there's almost like little labs across the business units that then we can feed up.

[00:12:42] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:42] Kevin Dana: And so the, the last part I would say with that is the AI competency center was we don't want it to be an IT-led initiative. We want it to be IT supported, so that we know what tools, how to... you know, w-where there are problems, et cetera.

Mm-hmm. But there were AI champions. So we asked each of the business unit leaders to name business people that would be AI champions because we wanted people that knew their business processes, where their pain points were, and had enough technical acumen to dig into the tools to start to figure those things out.

And so at this point, we have 200, uh, AI champions, and that's continuing to grow. In fact, we have, uh, next week a summit where 500 people are coming together, and those, uh, a subset of those 200 over a day and a half are just going to demo what they've done- Hmm ... to, uh, everyone that's in attendance, and then we're going to record that and then also make that available to the company.

So it really is showing AI in action- Mm-hmm ... and doing it in a way that, um, is business-oriented, business-led as opposed to technology-led.

[00:13:42] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:43] Brian Feldt: Those AI champions and the AI in action events, those are, those are very key. So Roula, I do want to- Yeah ... uh, come back to that. Mm-hmm. But maybe to backtrack a little bit, I like how you've d- you know, termed it open mic night.

Um- ... I've definitely been part of some of those conversations. Um, and it's not just a what are we doing with AI, it's also working with each other, supporting each other to walk through the challenges, uh, we're encountering- Mm-hmm ... with AI, the changes that are happening to our day-to-day jobs because this is massive- Right

change that's happening on an individual level. And so with that context, I wanted to bring up our integrated management and leadership, uh, curriculum, which is, um, a company-wide, uh, framework on how we, you know, basically our culture. And so maybe to the extent you can, how has our culture and those leadership and our core values, how has that helped enable, um, teams on like the individual contributor level-

[00:14:36] Kevin Dana: Yeah

[00:14:36] Brian Feldt: to lean in- Mm-hmm ... and trust AI and know that, you know, we can surface challenges and things like that?

[00:14:43] Kevin Dana: Um, well, you started with trust, and that is one of the-- that's the top. The, the number one in our, our culture is trust, and that-- and with that, an aspect of transparency. So, uh, we've led with this is what we're doing, and I, I'll just draw it to myself in, in some ways- Mm-hmm

IT is a business unit as well. So I'd say, you know, we, we were-- I was looking at all of these things and, and trying to then say, "W-what is that journey going to look like?" Because one of the most... Right now, one of the most disrupted parts of jobs is in AI coding assistance and how that impacts IT in the way that we deliver.

Um, and so we're hearing noise, so we had an all-hands meeting. I, I published a, a, uh, an IT technology strategy document, said, "This is where we're going." And it was an overall three, three-year journey or three-year horizon, but broke it up into years, and said, "I, I just want everybody to know, like, we have really three options here.

One is, like, we can say top-down, 'This is what's going to happen.' We can bury our head in the sand and hope that things-- this, this just blows over and it isn't a thing, or we can go on the journey together because we're not necessarily going to be able to figure out all the detailed elements, and we need you to be engaged to make those things happen."

[00:15:52] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:53] Kevin Dana: And, and that, as it ties back to, um, to trust and the other one is around embracing change- Mm-hmm ... is, uh, meeting them there to say, "Be clear about that." And then after that, that session, it was a, a, a live session, you know, a couple of days later, hearing, you know, some noise like, "People weren't happy with what you said.

They're... You know, uh, they feel disrupted and whatever." So we had a listening session the next week- Mm-hmm ... and I said, "I, I've heard the feedback." Mm-hmm. "Uh, I want to acknowledge it." And I just said, "You know, there are cases like this where it's a broad-based disruption, but I... Even in my own career, I can point to at least two distinct moments in my career where what I had achieved the expertise around or whatever just was like, 'I know every day this is what I'm going to do.'

Co- you know, the next day it was like, 'That's done. We're moving on.'" And so having to do those and just th-there's an emotion to that. They're like, "I lost what I had." Mm-hmm. So I expressed that to them and I said, "I get it. Take some time." Think through that, go through the grieving process of it, talk to your manager, talk to me, but also understand this is a change, and we, we don't have control of that change happening to us.

What we have is the control of how we respond to that change.

[00:17:07] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:07] Kevin Dana: So that just kind of is, uh, how we've applied IML at least in, as a anecdote in IT, but that is uniformly what we're doing across worldwide.

[00:17:15] Brian Feldt: Yeah, and that doesn't necessarily put the challenges, you know... It doesn't brush them under the, the rug.

It doesn't make them go away. Right. But it does help give a sense of, of teamwork, collaboration, that you're tackling this together, um, just, m- you know, lending itself further to that trust.

[00:17:29] Kevin Dana: Right. Mm-hmm. We ca- uh, embrace the brutal facts is another aspect- ... of our, our culture, so yeah.

[00:17:34] Brian Feldt: I am curious, what role do you see HR in being a true enabler of AI adoption?

How proactive should they be knowing this, that this can't just be, you know, an IT initiative or even an IT and business initiative? It has to take, you know, all teams pulling together.

[00:17:50] Kevin Dana: Uh, there's two off the cuff, but, uh, I'm sure there's more, um, since it's not my function. Mm-hmm. But the first and foremost is kind of to extend what we said there is, uh, HR typically owns training and enablement, and so the aspects of things like a- annual required training or, uh, competency training.

So partnering to enable, um, those, that kind of training once we've kinda settled in on, on what those are and getting those established in the system so that the business unit leaders can say to, particularly to those, uh, employees that aren't as far along or not as, uh, interested in experimenting, "Here's where you start to go to get your training so that you can get, get skilled up," uh- Mm-hmm

"so you can catch up." Uh, and so they can provide that kind of partnership there. The other part of it that I think will come more so as we, um, start to do the step back and look at how do, how do these processes change, that means that roles and responsibilities will change. And so that obviously creates a component of both, uh, uh, an empathetic point of view around how do we handle the messaging, how do we handle changes and, you know, particularly, um, less so maybe in the US, but if you're a global company, how does that, um, uh, comply with the r- uh, the regulations or the, the laws around what somebody was hired for and if those things are changing.

Mm-hmm. So there's a lot that will have to go into thinking about those things intentionally and doing it in a way that goes back to showing that we understand, uh, our employees, we want to build trust, and we want to do that in a transparent and a logical way, not in a haphazard and, and chaotic way.

[00:19:25] Roula Amire: For the HR listener who says, "This sounds idyllic.

I mean, this sounds amazing." The

[00:19:31] Kevin Dana: garden, yes.

[00:19:33] Roula Amire: What advice would you have for... Because there, the, there's a discussion at companies on who's leading AI.

[00:19:40] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:40] Roula Amire: Is it the tech team? Is it HR around messaging? Are they partnering together? So for the listener who doesn't have a great partnership with their tech team, with the equivalent of, of a you- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

of the chief, you know, informa- technology officer, um, what would... Any tips or advice on how they can build a stronger, um, you know, partnership?

[00:20:05] Kevin Dana: Uh, it does come down to people at that point, I'd say. And so if I'd, I'd... Maybe I'll, I'll turn the question around and be like, if, if, uh, as an, as an IT person- Mm-hmm

as the IT leader, First realize with AI, it's too big to be one person's show Um, it just is, it's insurmountable. Uh, it's something I've, I've frankly grappled with, if I'm, I'm transparent. I felt for a long time was like, "I need to figure this out." But then as the weight continues to get heavier and heavier and the, the scope gets broader and broader, you realize this is just a big thing.

So-

[00:20:38] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm ...

[00:20:38] Kevin Dana: in some ways it's not just, uh, create that relationship with HR, although to your question, that would be where I would start, but it would be in some of these, it's engage with your HR leader and say these things-- "Here's what I'm seeing coming." Just be open around- Mm-hmm ... "Here's what I see coming.

These may not be right, but I want to talk to you. What do you see coming?" Make it a two-way conversation in a, in a trusted smaller group first, and then through that say, "Well, what actions do you think we should take? Maybe we have listening sessions," um, and gather feedback that way that creates more, uh, signal to the noise.

Um, back to even our earlier part of that conversation, how are we making sure that our leaders are listening? Mm-hmm. How do, how do the HR partners that are, uh, embedded with the business functions acting as counselors to create the best practices to make sure that those things are happening? And then with that, I'd expand that to aspects of, uh, an organization's marketing and communications, 'cause if you're going to pull off a town hall or, um, a, a summit or something like that, they're the ones that have the expertise in that.

So I think sometimes we get lost in if it's about AI, well, I'll carry the torch and figure out how to do all these things, when in the end it's still a team sport and you want to Mm-hmm ... bring in, you know, everybody under the big tent and make, make those events happen. And when that happens with the level of, of expertise and excellence that each of those functions can provide with their own subject matter expertise- Mm-hmm

you're pulling off a much better event, if you will call that, or experience that is genuine because you're not just trying to, you know, say, "Here's AI," but here's a conversation that you're having about where AI is meeting your workforce and where you're trying to achieve outcomes.

[00:22:16] Brian Feldt: So you're, I mean, you're talking about now bringing in, you know, not just your IT teams, you're talking about bringing in HR, um, marketing, comms.

I'm sure the list gets longer and longer. That's a complex process in and of itself. How do you align all those different parts? And I'm sure you don't have just a, a, you know, a, a magic answer here, but is it about driving towards shared outcomes? Is it about being transparent about what type of outcomes you want?

Or is it with the state of AI moving so fast, is it just about, "Hey, we're going to have to learn all this together-" "... and we need to rely on people skills and trust to, to get through it together?"

[00:22:51] Kevin Dana: It's, it's more the latter. It is a little bit of the seat of the pants, if I'm honest. Mm-hmm. But, um, but again, it goes back to if the messaging and the expectations are communicated top-down and the executive leadership of those business units is bought in- Mm-hmm

then you're not having to pull teeth to make that part happen. Then it becomes a matter of, um, uh, what are the expected outcomes. Uh, I'd say on the IT side, the other thing that you do have to do is carve out- dedicated capacity to focus on those, those aspects of, of I'll call it R&D around what are the, uh, what are the, what are the things that are coming?

How do, what does that mean? But that needs to be engaged with those portfolios to also say, "Let's try experimenting with these things in your spaces," as opposed to it being done, you know, in a silo and then here's what's going to happen.

[00:23:38] Brian Feldt: Yeah.

[00:23:38] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm.

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We've talked a lot about the role of leaders, um, but peers matter as well, and you talked about the champions.

[00:24:21] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:21] Roula Amire: Um, we know that people are much more likely to try new technology or anything new when they're part of a trusted group of people, and we see this with employee resource groups. Nearly 90% of people in ERGs use AI at least once a month, compared to about two-thirds of people who are not part of an, an ERG.

Um, how do you encourage or speak more about how you encourage that peer-to-peer learning, either formally or, or informally?

[00:24:53] Kevin Dana: I think, again, our, our worldwide employees have taken initiative in, in the ERGs. I know that they, many of them have set up almost those same types of listening sessions to or, um, uh, open mic nights to talk about AI and what they're seeing in those.

So I think that that- Mm-hmm ... because they already had a community, so to speak, uh, and were talking amongst themselves, then it was an opportunity to have built-in trust to say- Mm-hmm ... "Hey, here's what we're showing here." So I think that that would play out to why we would see, um, those types of metrics of, uh, higher engagement there.

Mm-hmm. The, the AI competency center and the, the, that I think I mentioned around champions was essentially trying to do that same or similar pattern, I would call it, around, uh, those spaces and to enable that at the broader level. But we would not put them in, uh, competition with each other versus let them complement each other.

[00:25:43] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:44] Kevin Dana: Um, so that's really how we've been approaching that is getting it at the grassroots level, giving people a forum to be able to do those experiments, and then spreading the word, to your point. There, there are varying types of people, if I could put it as it relates to technology adoption. Mm-hmm.

There's the ones that are like, you don't have to ask questions, you've already got it downloaded, you're tr- you're trying it out. Mm-hmm. There's your fast followers, and then you've got folks that really, you know, it's not that they're set in their ways, but they really don't want to be wasting their time, or that might be their view of- Mm-hmm

trying something if it's not going to work, and that's fine. We need to work, figure out how to take the strengths of all three of those there 'cause tho- th- uh, that third group becomes the engine by which once something is figured out and aligned, it gets adopted, and then it gets worked. So, you know, leveraging the, the, all three of those and making that a kind of essentially a for all component of how we do the enablement is, is key.

[00:26:40] Brian Feldt: Maybe one of those events that, that you can dive a little bit deeper into was, I, I think it was, if I recall, the, The Great AI Unlock. That's what we- Mm-hmm ... called the event. It was more or less a town hall, and it was mostly with, with an IT, with IT teams. I think it was a lot of, uh, software developers. And one of the pieces of feedback that we got on that event, and I think it was a quote, was, "There was before The Great AI Unlock-"

and now there's after The Great AI Unlock." And it was because we saw a noticeable uptick in AI usage after that. Describe that event and what was it about, what was said during that event that led to that uptick? Was it just, you know, clarity of use cases? Was it transparency on how we're using AI? Was it something else?

[00:27:24] Kevin Dana: Yeah. So we do, we refer to it as before the great unlock and after. We'll have to come up with an acronym for that- ... 'cause we're in IT. But, um, I think there were a couple things. Again, it, it, it made something real and focused. So in that particular event- Mm-hmm ... it was focused specifically around how do we use AI for coding and software delivery life cycle.

And it was, uh, primarily IT, but we also have technical, uh, delivery folks that are in our go-to-market space and, and consulting, et cetera, so they were a, a part of these things as well. They help our clients with, with doing a lot of these things. So it, it helped in, in the regard that it created a, a light and created visibility into all of those early adopters and, uh, right after adopters because they got a chance to show off what they were doing.

[00:28:12] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:12] Kevin Dana: And then it created the light bulb effect for the, the others to be like, "Oh my goodness, this is real." It cut through the signal-to-noise. Again, if you, if you read the stuff on the internet, half of them say this is going to, you know, replace your job, the other half are going to say it never works. There's probably some truth in the middle somewhere.

And so this event started to show where people were not just talking about what they did, but they were demonstrating what they were doing.

[00:28:35] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:36] Kevin Dana: And when you demonstrate something, it becomes real, and that was when that, that became a... And it became an open invitation. We said, "Here's where you get the tools.

Here's where you... You know, the licenses, and here's where you get the enablement materials." And we had people even that week that hadn't touched the tools pick the tools up and turn around the next week and say, "Here's what I did." Um, one example was, uh, in, in a space that we wouldn't even have expected AI tools to help because it's a, a legacy technology, two of our, our, our brightest, um, uh, folks in that space use the tool to cut the, the, uh, a response time down from 15 minutes to three minutes on a, a partic- particularly troubling thing.

And that was great just for that technical component, but that thing is something that our logistics and our supply chain team members, when they're on the floor, have to wait 15 minutes for that thing to go, uh, to, to function. Mm-hmm. So now cutting that by three minutes reduces, you know, just sitting there waiting frustratingly for something to return, uh, by a significant factor.

And so it improved, uh, it tangibly improved something on the, the business outcome side as well.

[00:29:42] Brian Feldt: A- and I really see that event as the culmination of a lot of the things that we've already talked about. Mm-hmm On this episode already, talking about Jim's focus and intent on AI, top-down leadership, openly talking about it in those, um, open mic sessions.

I mean, all of that really culminated to people wanting to experiment or experiment, innovate with AI. They were able to present it in a clear way at this event, and, you know, we had a culture of embracing change along the way that helped people give that light bulb moment. So, um- Mm-hmm ... I really think that's a clear example of how- Mm-hmm

a lot of the things that we've already talked about, th- those values led to a really tangible moment where, uh, we had an inflection point. Yeah.

[00:30:24] Roula Amire: Agreed, and I love that you called that out because that's a great actual use case 'cause things can sound good, and then there's, like, real life, how it works. Yes.

And that's a great example of peer-to-peer learning, hearing something, oh, taking the mystery out of it. I can do that. It encourages people. As, as you're saying, it has that wonderful ripple effect. One other quick follow-up on the champions, um, and the, and the open mic night. Those are... An open mic night or day, whatever it is.

[00:30:52] Brian Feldt: Yeah, right.

[00:30:52] Roula Amire: Who knows what's happening at night at Robot?

Practical kind of ways to implement that. So if people say, "How do I find, how do I find those champions in my company? How do I know who is, who is in, who's using it, um," and yeah, we'll start with that, you know, question.

[00:31:12] Kevin Dana: It still kinda goes back to the emphasis on culture. Um, that's what's enabled us to navigate the tumultuous aspects of these things.

Mm-hmm. So, so i- in some ways, not saying it's too little too late, but if you're starting the listening sessions now to talk about AI, you're going to have to overcome a little bit of, "Oh, they just want to talk about AI." Mm-hmm. We're fortunate enough that, you know, the aspects of the way that our business unit leaders, executive vice presidents, um, work with their organization does entail that aspect of listening and feedback loop, et cetera.

So it was natural for them to start asking questions about how, how are you seeing AI used in your spaces? So that doesn't necessarily- Mm-hmm ... help. Uh, so maybe if I could... It's, it's not too late, all right? If you're open and transparent and saying, "Hey, we want to... We're, we're trying something here"-

[00:31:56] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm ...

[00:31:56] Kevin Dana: and not set it up as such a high bar of we're going to do this and we're going to change the company because of exactly what you say versus this is where we want to go.

Mm-hmm. Tell, talk, start talking to us about where you're seeing opportunities, where you might have experimented, uh, and, and make it open in that regard. And even if, uh, if you're in the, on the IT side of it and you don't have the tools yet, use it as, I semi, semi jokingly call it an amnesty program, like come and talk to us about what tools you have or need, um, because that then informs us on where we need to go in, in licensing the right things and securing the right things so that we can give you the right, the right components to do those experimentations in a safe and secure way.

So the kinda coupling those two together help in creating that, that mixture that then enables that experimentation and, and that, uh, that implementation.

[00:32:45] Brian Feldt: One insightful thing you told me about the AI champions that I thought was interesting, and I really hadn't thought about it that way, was th- these aren't people that are simply the best at using AI or- Right.

They've found... I mean, they are people that are great at using AI- Mm-hmm ... and they have found breakthroughs, but maybe more importantly, they're people that are getting people on the bandwagon, and that's a very much a, a people-to-people-

[00:33:08] Kevin Dana: Yes ...

[00:33:08] Brian Feldt: and getting into relationships and, and driving trust and things like that.

Maybe a little bit more on that.

[00:33:13] Kevin Dana: Well, well, I mean, we did pick, uh, and we wanted the champions to be in the business because th- they already, they already know the pain points in the business, and they know- Mm ... the frustrations of their team members. Uh, and so it is a logical component of... It's less of a, a technical hurdle versus a, "Let me show you what I did," and, or, "Why don't you tell me the problem and I'll, I'll take it and try and figure it out this way, and then we can, you know, work back and forth with it."

So when you do have that mu- that higher touch personal connection, um, it creates greater trust. It, it then radiates out. It will create more of a, uh, removing the hesitancy because they're seeing that it's others of their, of, of their unit, uh, that are, are doing those things as opposed to, you know, "I'm, I'm here from IT and I'm here to help."

It's not going to, um, land as well in that regard, um, because we don't always appreciate the nuances of, of what they're doing. Uh, we try to, but it's just, uh, it's, it's better when- Yeah ... it's engaged with the, the employees. And then we, we... That affords us, in a way, an ability to concentrate our time and attention in a direct manner through a conduit as opposed to, you know, 50 different tickets coming from across the board versus one conversation that has the depth of where there might be a problem, uh, where there's, uh, some sort of error happening or whatnot, and then we can solve those things faster that way, too.

[00:34:35] Brian Feldt: Yeah. I actually really like that as a very simplified view of, of AI adoption in the enterprise is ticket versus conversation.

[00:34:41] Kevin Dana: Mm. Yeah.

[00:34:42] Brian Feldt: Um, anyway, I'll just leave that-

[00:34:44] Kevin Dana: Everybody loves tickets, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:47] Roula Amire: To close this out- Yeah ... we should mention that World Wide has been part of a small group of companies who've been working with Great Place to Work to better understand how high-trust workplaces are navigating through AI and the employee experience that which includes frontline workers, the IT-HR partnership, so much more.

Mm-hmm. Um, the throughline of it all, as we've talked about today, is trust. What have you learned from the partnership so far, and, and where are you headed next?

[00:35:15] Kevin Dana: Um, the, the... I just-- We went through a session, uh, yesterday with the, that cohort on, um, AI for all and, and what we're learning and, um, um, back to trust, being able to get in a room, uh, where we can talk about it.

First, realize that we're not all... We're n- we're not alone.

[00:35:33] Brian Feldt: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:33] Kevin Dana: Everybody's dealing with, uh, similar aspects to things. But then through that, you know, there's that whole concept of the answers in the room and being able to converse and trade ideas. And, and one of the... For me, one of the more insightful ones as we were talking through things, particularly we were honing in on entry-level individual contributor, uh, roles.

And so people... You know, whether it's fresh out of school or you're, you're, you know, an individual contributor versus a manager. And we kind of worked out through that, that one of the things that's interesting about AI when we're trying to enable you as an individual contributor is that you are in e-effect delegating some aspects of your role or responsibility to AI to do, and that's something that we typically train man- new managers.

When you move into management, it's... You learn- Mm-hmm ... how do you delegate, how do you give up? You know, 'cause the old adage is always like, "I can do it faster if I do it myself," but it's like, but you should give it to somebody else because your time needs to be focused on other things. So- Mm-hmm ... long way to get back to w-we were saying, well, one of the things that we'll probably need to focus on through this is how we change our training and enablement and move some of that delegation training down into indi-individual contributor roles, 'cause they're not necessarily coming out of school learning those things.

You, you're, you're poised with learning how do I become an expert at something. Mm-hmm. We still want that, but we now need to teach, uh, how you're expected to delegate aspects of that and then verify. Everything about AI still means that you own it. There is a ba- the aspect of agency and your responsibility, and the reason we brought you into the company is because of your abilities.

We're going to give you AI as a tool and a capability, and then with that delegation, that magnifies your ability to produce and create. Um, but it's still yours to... and your responsibility to make sure that the quality is there. So-

[00:37:21] Roula Amire: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you, Kevin. You were excellent. Thank you. A wonderful guest.

I learned a lot. Um, this might be my longest in-depth conversation with a

[00:37:33] Kevin Dana: It's been

[00:37:33] Roula Amire: my longest in-depth- ... chief information officer ... conversation

[00:37:34] Kevin Dana: as an IT person. Yeah. It's a first. I'll,

[00:37:36] Roula Amire: I'll

[00:37:37] Brian Feldt: take the blame on that as

[00:37:39] Roula Amire: the co-host. And thank you for being my favorite co-host.

[00:37:41] Brian Feldt: Yeah. Well- ... one of one. I... Yes. Yeah.

[00:37:44] Roula Amire: One...

We're one for one, both of us.

[00:37:45] Brian Feldt: Right. Right. Thank you for the opportunity.

[00:37:48] Roula Amire: Thank you. Thank you both. This was great.

[00:37:49] Brian Feldt: My pleasure.

[00:37:52] Roula Amire: Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today's podcast, please leave a five-star rating, write a review, and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. You can stream this and previous episodes wherever podcasts are available.